January 18, 2012 / Leadership, Opportunity

Romney Ties Obama Because He’s the Women’s Candidate

by

The opinions expressed herein are those of the author, and not necessarily those of The New Agenda.

Despite the fact that in every presidential election since 1980 the turnout rates for women have exceeded the turnout rates for men, women will again be asked this November to choose between two men for the Oval Office. Most women will decide to vote for their political party’s nominee, and because “Republicans are slightly more likely to be male than female — although slightly less so today than in 2008,” a gender gap is likely to emerge.

But the 2012 presidential election is not going to be about the gender gap (the difference between the genders), it’s going to be about the women’s vote (the partisan split among women), as it was in the last two elections. As the Center for American Women in Politics shows, in both 2004 and 2008 the gender gap was 7%, but the women’s vote was different. In 2008, a solid majority of women supported Barack Obama over John McCain (56% to 43%), whereas in 2004, the women’s vote was more evenly divided between John Kerry and George W. Bush (51% to 48%).

The partisan choice of women voters is a critical determinant of the election’s outcome.

So what does this have to do Mitt Romney?

According to the crosstabs in a recent CNN/ORC Poll, Romney ties Obama because more women say they would vote for him, than they would his GOP rivals.

*Obama vs. Romney – women split 53% to 45% (2% other)

*Obama vs. Gingrich – women split 58% to 40% (2% other)

*Obama vs. Paul – women split 56% to 40% (2% other)

*Obama vs. Santorum – women split 57% to 42%

Romney holds between a 3% and 5% advantage among women voters over his fellow Republicans. Romney and Paul, the poll leaders in a race against Obama, tie on the level of support they earn from men (59%).

Romney is the “more electable” candidate because he appeals to women voters. From a purely analytical (not partisan) standpoint, if the Republicans want a close race in November, then they should follow the lead of Senator Kelly Ayotte, Governor Nikki Haley, and Rep. Cathy McMorris Rodgers and throw their support behind Romney.

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  • Bes

    Yes, and I like Condi Rice or Meg Whitman for VP. But of course I would vote for Romney with any number of women in the VP slot because I am not voting for Obama. You would think at some point Republicans would realize the majority of voters are women and stop saying things that alienate them. I am still interested in the “Americans Elect” group. I am not sure who is behind them but I find their concept of bypassing the political parties very appealing. Of course any candidate who comes out and states that we have a bullshit way of choosing nominees and then pledges to change the system so people in the West can have their issues addressed and can also vote at the same time the Eastern people vote while there is still a selection of candidates to choose from will gain most west coast voters. Or how about this, the Easterners have voted first up until now so for fairness the Western states will vote first for the next 50 years, that would be equitable wouldn’t it?

  • BevWKY

    Sheesh. He doesn’t appeal to me and last time I checked I was a woman. Nor was I part of a herd mentality. So, no thanks.

    Sheesh.

  • Bes

    Well the Powers That Be have determined it will be Romney vs Obama in 2012 so you’re going to have to hold your nose and vote. It would be a good idea to run a third party all woman ticket. Even if it only got 10% of the vote that would be enough to force both parties to court the women’s vote. Wait, what am I thinking, that is an effective political strategy so “Feminists” couldn’t possibly use it as it would lead to real power for women.

  • Kimble

    Romney appeals to many because he is seen as the most electable against Obama. But you seldom hear of anyone who is truly enthusiastic about Romney on his own merits. I sometimes look at right-leaning blogs, where people actively detest Romney.

    I think that is going to be a problem for him come the fall.

  • Kali

    Why be forced to choose between Corporate Candidate #1 and Corporate Candidate #2? This is the ideal time to vote for a third party candidate, especially if it is a woman. Bes is right – even if the third party candidate gets a few percentage points, it will change the dynamic of future elections. We have so little to lose in making this choice. It is not as if Obama or Romney are all that different.

  • Juliette

    I think Romney is over. He was a mad mess in the Fox New So. Carolina debate. Newt has a really great chance of Beating the progressive in conservative clothing Mittens Romneycare. Now with an endorsement from Todd Palin and advise from Sarah Palin to So. Carolina voters to keep the process going by voting fdor Newt, Romney is sure to have a very difficult time in spite of the fact that he has all the big-bank and corporate elite support and money that Obama had and still has. If republican voters allow themselves to be mainipulated by the media into voting for this non conservative they will get what they desearve-defeat. The democrats will use the race card hard against Romney’s Mormon faith. They are already creating documentaries and putting it out there in the popular culture. American voters fall for the same triks again and again voting for the big money candidate than crying foul when they become president and serve only their financiers. Obama and Romney both fit the discription of bought candidates. When will American voters wake up? Romney is the choice of the progressive Bush Cartel and the liberal media if they had to have a republican candidate. He will continue progressing US towards a centralized Global government just as the Bushes did. He has no loyalty to this country just like the Bushes. Please wakew up republicans and please drop out Rick Perry, you don’t stand a chance and you are only serving to split the conservative vote. If I have to choose between to sons of a polygamist in Nov. 2012 I would rather sit it out. Let the democrats take the blame for their progressive agenda. Romney and the Bushes are progressives but people blame conservative Christians for all the big government and New World Order redistribution of our wealth the Bushes facilitated. Mormons are no Christian and neither are Free Masons and neither believe in the kind of government our founding fathers created.

  • Bes

    Romney is the chosen one, nothing can be done about it. If he doesn’t win they will invent a reason not to count the votes as they did in 2008 when Hillary was winning or they will hold corrupt caucuses.

    Here is a link to an article about Newt. He married his high school math teacher who is 7 years older than he is. Then 18 years and 2 kids latter brought her divorce papers while she was in the hospital recovering from having a tumor removed. I don’t think that sort of thing will fly with conservative voters.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new.....-Lady.html

  • Juliette

    Bes

    I know about Newt’s personal baggage but Obama’s secret life with his “body man” is about to hit the fan so I doubt that Obama will have the nerve to go there. Newt’s daughter told the true story of her parents divorce and it is not nearly as scandelous as the rumors. I would have preferred a real conservative like Bachmann or Santorum but Newt’s unfortunately voters are more interested in debate performance than records personal and public office. I cannot create the perfect candidate so when the primary comes to PA I will chose between Newt and Santorum. It is so unfortunate that with his amazing intellect and knowledge on economics and health care, Ron Paul never took the time to really learn about Islam and what the intent of the Arab world is. He has destroyed his candidacy by blaming the US for Islamic terrorism while Coptic Christians in Eygpt and many other Christans throughout the Muslim world are being burned to death in their churchs. I wonder if Ron Paul blames America when ever a Muslim father runs over his daughter, stones her to death for dishonoring the family or when ever a little girl has her cliterous hacked off in some Muslim country.

  • Juliette

    Bes

    I really like your comments. It does seem that the banking establishment which controls the majority of power in ther republicn party and all the power in the democrat party has chosen their nominee. There is one thing that they have not considered and that is that Romeny is forced upon conservatives Sarah Plain will begin to creat a third party to run in 2016 the day after the nomination. Palin has far more courage than Hillary Clinton and she will not stand for banking elites stealing our democratic process. She decided not to run because she new what the RNC would do to her. She new the books were cooked for Romney and that the New World Order Bush plan will go on with either Romney of Obama in the white house. So expect something big to happen if American voters are denied their free will once again. Thank God we still have the kind of courage here in America that Europe lacks except for brave hearts: of Nigel Ferage, Nialle Ferrgeson and Ayan Hirsi Ali. I cannot believe America will silently allow themselves to be sold out to a global dictatorship. The world is on to what has been transpiring since 2002 and the Rio Earth sumitt. Too many people understand what is happening and I think that Al Gore the Bushes, Clintons, Obama’s, Soro’s and the Windsors should not be so confident about their global plan.

  • Susan

    So, Palin was more courageous because she decided not to run for president than Hillary was because she actually ran a serious campaign for the presidency?

    You are one sick puppy, Juliette.

  • Bes

    I like and would support Hillary, Palin or Bachmann because they are authentic, effective women. I don’t care if they are philosophically Democrat or Republican since there isn’t much difference between the parties, they both are corrupt, sold out to multinational corporations and tone deaf to women’s issues. In fact if the Democrats start up with their reproductive health threats this election its possible I will cross over from quietly ignoring them to violence, I’m that sick of their insulting chanted mantras. I frankly think it might be good for reproductive rights to be rolled back as it would motivate young women politically. I also feel the time is right for a third party in 2012 and I agree there is no reason not to vote third party since there is not significant difference between the Obamaites and the Romneyites. I agree Palin saw that the fix was in for 2012 and decided not to waste her energy. She has worked against the arrogant and powerful in her own party in the past so I can see her having the courage to run as a third party. If she does she will have my vote. Also she didn’t endorse Newt, she said she would vote for him if she was one of the “more equal” people who could vote while it is still relevant “to keep the contest going”. That’s hardly an endorsement.

  • Kimble

    Marianne Gingrich says that Newt asked her for an open marriage–to have, essentially, two women at once.

    And we shouldn’t vote for Romney because his ancestors practiced polygamy?

    I’ll say one thing for this primary season… it ain’t dull.

  • Marille

    Looks like the republicans have found their own Edwards with Gingrich. Interview airing tonight on nightline. He divorced first wife when diagnosed with cancer, second when diagnosed with MS. all the while keeping a mistress.

  • Susan

    While Palin and Bachmann haven’t proposed any policies that would benefit women, Hillary has a long commitment to and history of working to improve the lives of women and girls. Let’s not rewrite history in the name of supporting women candidates.

    I once was an avid supporter of the 30% solution but candidates like Sharron Angle and the “I am not a witch” woman (can’t think of her name)and, yes, Palin and Bachmann, cured me of that forever. That’s not to say that any woman candidate does not need to be defended against sexist attacks. No woman should have to endure what Palin did with Andrew Sullivan’s obsession with her vagina but to claim that there is no difference between her and Hillary is just ridiculous.

  • Juliette

    Susan

    You seem to forget how SNL, David Lettermen, and nearly all of the liberal pop culture morons felt more than comfortable going after Sarah Palin’s family. Here handicaped son was attacked, her daghters were attacked, her personal emails were hacked by the son of a democrat congressman from TN. Her family was treatened and a sick journalist even rented the home next to the Palin’s so he could stalk them then write a book about them. How can anything that Hillary Clinton went through (and it was alot) be compared to what a conservative woman has to deal with in this Godless culture of misogyny we are in.

    So far in all the comments I have read at The New Agenda I have never witnessed one commentor personally attacking another. Perhaps you would feel more comfortable at PUMApac- that is if they are still in existance.

  • Juliette

    Kimble

    Maryanne Gingrich said some things about what happened 15 years ago between her and her husband.
    Larry Sinclaire said somethings about Barak Obama which after reading much of Kevin Dujans Hillbuzz blog and seeing a picture of college student Barry Soetoro with his boy friend, the Pakistani national with whom he went to Pakistan, I would believe Mr. Sinclaire before I believed Gingrich’s ex-wife.

  • Juliette

    Ref http://hillbuzz.org

    Article on Gingrich says:

    It is not true that Newt divorced his wife while she had cancer. Jackie Cushman is still alive and never had cancer. She attnds family events with Newt Gingrich and family. Newt’s second wife Marianne Gingrich does not have MS. She has a disorder that may eventual become MS. ABC news lies and all of the Obama media have gone to great length to keep scandalous alligations against Barak Obama on the down low.

  • Bes

    Susan, You are just regurgitating liberal Democrat talking points. Palin, Bachmann, O’Donnell and Angle are Republican women they are not raving lunatics, sex objects or sluts. I like Hillary too. The people who are raving lunatics are the ones who have Palin derangement syndrome. And I don’t vote for any woman who runs. I didn’t vote for Christine Gregoire because she was an Obot in 2008 before the Primary was decided which was completely inappropriate. I would be happy to see Palin run as a third party because if either the Republicans or Democrats preselect a woman candidate for President she will have to be someone as inauthentic as Newt Gingrich or Chris Matthews in drag.

  • Juliette

    Newt’s daughter on the whole “affair.”

    http://townhall.com/columnists.....d_straight

  • Kali

    I can’t imagine how any woman can support a sociopathic, misogynistic creep like Newt Gingrich. It takes all kinds, I guess.

  • BevWKY

    Heh, Kali, I felt the same way in the ’90s thinking about a certain Bill Clinton… so, yah know, at this point, with the state the country is in, I’m pretty much done with worrying about the candidates personal lives.

    In fact, isn’t the liberals that are always telling us conservatives that we shouldn’t be looking at that side of things when it comes to candidates?!? What the heck is wrong with this picture? Why is the left so dang interested in “vetting” OUR candidate in terms of their personal lives?

    Hmmmm?

    Particularly when they have yet to vet Obama’s…

    And anyone who says they have seriously show me more than one or two pictures of him.as a young man.

  • Kali

    Heh, Kali, I felt the same way in the ’90s thinking about a certain Bill Clinton… so, yah know, at this point, with the state the country is in, I’m pretty much done with worrying about the candidates personal lives.

    I didn’t support Bill Clinton in the 90s after his abominable treatment of Jones, Lewinsky and Hillary, and in fact had big arguments with friends who did, and I don’t support Obama now. I support women who have far more integrity and honesty than most men. Also, if one is a cheat and a liar in their personal lives, I don’t expect them to magically acquire honesty and integrity in their public lives.

  • Bes

    Juliette: your link doesn’t work. Also I am squeamish about a child, even if it is an adult child, commenting on a parents marriage. Usually people go to extreme lengths to shield their children from the gory details of a divorce. For the child’s mental health many folks allow the children to hold on to their positive illusions of their parent.

    Kali: Gingrich is amoral regarding marriage but he isn’t a sociopath. Worse men, such as Democrat Ted Kennedy have had the support of female voters and their political party (and of course media). Of course you remember that TK left his pregnant wife at home with the children and went to a party, left, with a young woman named Mary Jo, being drunk drove off the road into deep water, the car sunk and she drowned slowly over a period of hours while he saved himself and swam to shore, did not call for help for her and started constructing his alibi. Yes, it did happen.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C.....k_incident

  • Kali

    Bes, I believe Ted Kennedy should have been charged with manslaughter and should have spent at least a few years in jail. I am not interested in this “your man is worse than my man” debate. I don’t have a man. I don’t support men, left or right. I support women.

  • Bes

    Actually I meant to say if you are going to vote, and most of us are not among the “more equal” people who get to cast a vote while it’s still relevant although the parties and candidates will gladly take our donations, you are going to have to decide among a bunch of flawed men because that’s all there is.

  • BevWKY

    Actually, Bes, who better than adult children to speak up about what happened or didn’t? We’re not talking about minors speaking up here. We’re talking about adults who have good relationships with both parents and lived through the situation. They have their own voices and free will. As voters we should hear them out just as much as the second ex-wife, who definitely sound like she has an ax to grind.

    Also, frankly, I’ve always felt that there is a point where it’s much more detrimental to a child’s mental health to maintain a false illusion than to be truthful with them. I’m not talking about giving them more than they can handle, mind you, but also not creating fantasy worlds when reality is something quite different.I say that because allowing “positive illusions” to be maintained is exactly how so many abusive relationships are perpetuated so much of the time. Yeah, the truth might hurt and have to be dealt with but it’s a heck of lot more healthy in the long run than living in fantasyland. Or worse.

  • Kali

    Bes, actually there are the options of third party candidates (hopefully some will be women) and write-in. Use this opportunity to make a point rather than choose between a bunch of seriously flawed men.

  • Kimble

    I don’t think Gingrich is electable nationally. He may do well in SC as he knows how to reach conservative, male, southern white voters.

    But let’s face it, he’s on his third wife, who is 23 years his junior. Wife #3 was his mistress for something like 6 years before wife #2 found out. I know nothing of Callista Gingrich and have no opinion personally. But I think Americans retain enough of our puritanical roots to be turned off by the idea of the long-term-mistress-turned-wife as potential first lady.

  • BevWKY

    I would’ve probably agree with you a few years ago, Kimble. Before Obama had been in office. Before the TEA Parties. Before the way the media treated both Palin and Clinton during and after the elections.

    However all of those things have happened and in this age of the Internet we’re living in a completely different world. And the truth is that I’m not sure America was ever completely puritanical as Liberals want to believe. Conservative-leaning, sure, but that conservatism has always been balanced by a healthy practical streak and there are times when social concerns have to be placed much lower on the scale than others because of immediate needs.

    So, frankly, who cares how many wives or husbands someone has had if they have the ability to get us out of this mess? Seriously.

  • Susan

    Juliette, if you don’t want your historical inaccuracies pointed out, I suggest that you stop posting them. I actually was a Democrat during the ’90’s and lived through the absolutely vicious treatment that Hillary suffered at the hands of rightwing radio and television and even some in leftwing media.

    Even so, I’ve defended Palin and Bachmann here and elsewhere when they were attacked on the basis of their gender.

    This blog, the last I checked, was a place to support women and address gender issues, not promote a rightwing political agenda.

    As to your suggestion that I might be more comfortable posting on a PUMA site, I have to ask why you’re apparently attacking PUMA. Is that something you learned from Glenn Beck?

  • Susan

    Bes, apparently, you also have a problem with rewriting history. I have never attempted to reduce any woman, politician or civilian, to a sex object or a slut on this or any other blog. And while Sharron Angle (“being impregnated by a rapist is a gift from God”) and Christine O’Donnell (“I am not a witch”), in my estimation, are lunatics, it’s you who identified them as such on this blog, not me.

    For the record, while I would never vote for Bachmann, I was one of the first posters on here to object to her being attacked on The Jimmy Fallon Show. On this thread alone, I defended Palin against Andrew Sullivan’s attacks.

    Frankly, I’m disgusted by much of the rightwing hate speech that has nothing at all to do with advancing the cause of women that’s posted on this blog by a few women. I’ve responded to very little of it but when Juliette denigrated Hillary, she went too far. Be advised, future attempts to diminish Hillary will result in another fact-based challenge and a question as to Juliette’s motives in attacking the most admired woman in America for sixteen of the last eighteen years.

  • Susan

    Lest the Newt defenders here forget that this is supposed to be a blog that supports women, Newt was obviously dismissive of Bachmann whenever she challenged him during the debates in a way that he was not with any of the other male candidates.

    Bachmann has asserted that she cannot support him for the presidency.

  • BevWKY

    As far as I know, Bachmann didn’t support Gringrich because she simply doesn’t support his positions and does Romney’s. (Which is rather telling about her but that’s a whole other discussion.) People do that – make endorsement decisions based upon positions and policies. Even women. Against men. And vice versa.

    But, no, let’s make this all about women against men and how badly men treat women.

    Oye.

    You know, setting aside the fact that my brain simply won’t work that way in the first place, what about the simple fact that it’s an very impractical way to operate? Beyond that, all it does is show just how extremely bitter and biased about ANY MEN some of you are. Frankly that’s the reason I comment here as infrequently as I do. I respect this site and I read the good posts and try to comment when I have time but I refuse to dwell in the toxic fumes of the “all men are bad” mentality. It’s simply not productive.

    It’s not healthy.

    Do men make mistakes? Yeah, sure. They’re human beings. But then again, so are women last time I checked.

  • Kimble

    Bes,

    You mentioned that you didn’t vote for Christine Gregoire because she supported Obama before the primary.

    I’m just curious, do you support Patty Murray and Maria Cantwell? I don’t know where their alliances were in early ’08, but they certainly support the president now.

  • BevWKY

    For those that are so sure about how women vote when it comes to “scandals” in someone’s past, especially conservative women in a deeply religious state like NC, check out the exit polling data from the election yesterday:

    http://www.foxnews.com/politic.....exit-polls

    It’s interesting reading.

  • Bes

    Kimble: Yes I support both Cantwell and Murray and I am proud of their service. Gregoire gave the graduation speech at my sons University and I was impressed with her, she can sling the BS with the best of them. However I am outraged that I am not allowed to vote in the Primary while my vote is still relevant and for any politician from Washington to take a stand for Obama and also to allow the tax payers to fund a WA state Primary that the National Parties refused to acknowledge is unforgivable. Gregoire was the Attorney General before she was Governor and she should have allowed the people of WA to vote before taking sides she should have respected the people of WA not the eastern Party power pigs. Besides I consider anyone who would choose Obama over Hillary an idiot. Obama is now head of the Democrat Party, Murray and Cantwell have no choice by to support him if they want to exist as Senators.

  • Bes

    Bev. No, it is not OK with me to ask children of any age to comment on their Parents marriages. Children are not a party to the marriage and they should not know the details behind the marriage. A lot of good parenting is maintaining illusions of security and enforcing discipline from the outside until the child can mature to the point where they can provide their own financial and emotional security and self discipline. When the children reach maturity there is no need to go back and rewrite the supportive illusion to the ugly truth, no one is served by this. So for instance many divorced Parents would tell a child “what an accomplishment, I am so proud of you and your Father will be proud too”. As opposed to the truth which is … Your self absorbed, power hungry Father, who lies to the people who should be closest to him, threatening the secure home of his children because he can’t keep his pants zipped, might be proud if he were actually around enough to be aware of your life.” Children of all ages have illusions about there parents and for that reason I don’t value their opinions and I am also appalled that Newt would go there, it is further evidence to me of his need for power.

  • Bes

    Kali: It’s true there are other parties and hopefully one of them will run women candidates. I am very curious about the Americans Elect group. They may just be a bunch of Dems trying to split the Republican vote or a bunch of Republicans trying to split the Democrat vote, but if they are an authentic party I might go for them if they don’t exhibit any of the tone deaf to women behaviors the Republican and Democrats trade on. Ralph Nader with a woman VP would even look good about now. I will write in Minnie mouse if it’s Newt vs Obama and I don’t like the other options.

  • Juliette

    Susan
    Your post on the morning of Jan. 19 was very much like the kind of personal attacks of people at PUMApac. I found the blog to be dominated by a bunch of man hating radical lefties.
    Now where did you point out any “historical innacuracies” so I am not sure what you are talking about in your Jan 21 post.

  • Juliette

    Bes

    Sorry about the link but as it seems you are not interested in Newts daughter’s account I will not bother trying to link it again. I just wanted to let you know that Newt was not my choice but I much prefer him to Mitt Romney who is financed by the same banking establishment that supported Obama and is still hedging their bets by supporting both Obama and Romney. The Bushes support Romney and I don’t like them at all. I support Palin first, Bachmann second and then Santorum. Two out of three are women but that is not what affected my choice. If Santorum is out by PA, I will support Gingrich with reservationa about his personal life. But as you mentioned, it is not like he left a woman at the bottom of a lake and saved his own ass and went home to sleep before calling lawyers then the police. The stuff that liberal dudes get away with is sickening. I also fully believ that GAry Condit (democrat) had Saudra Levy killed by his Motercycle GAng “friends.”

  • Juliette

    Bes
    Sorry
    I believe her name was Shondra not Saundra.

  • Juliette

    BevWkY
    On your Jan 21 10:29 am post.

    Oye indeed! I have many good men in my life and I cannot support the idea that all men are bad and incapible of honesty, good will and fidelity. If I did I would still be reading PUMApac where the man hate dominates the discussion. It is indeed very counter productive as well. I am less likely to refer people to TNA when comments include alot of negatives on men. Lumping groups of people together by gender, sexual orientation or race-(some invented), is what I could not tolerate from the democrat party. I will vote for individuals based on their individual records and their courage to stick to their convictions and stand up to their own party when needed.

  • Susan

    Juliette, again, is PUMA a epithet to you? It was a movement that arose to protest the treatment of Hillary Clinton in 2008 nomination race? Exactly, what do you find objectionable about that? How do you get from PUMA to man-hating? Some PUMAs were men. Some of the people that PUMAs opposed were women. Many women who were PUMAs were married or in relationships with men. Lastly, my response to your comment was a reaction to you bad-mouthing Hillary Clinton. It had nothing to do with men.

    For the record, contrary to your assertions, Newt’s first wife was recovering from cancer when he served her with divorce papers and his second wife had been diagnosed with an illness that he had been told would be exacerbated by stress a few weeks before he asked her for a divorce. Whether voters want to consider those facts when choosing a president is up to them but the information was made public years ago. Even Newt doesn’t deny those bare facts. All he has denied is asking his second wife for an open marriage before divorcing her to marry his mistress of six years.

  • Susan

    BevWKY, Bachmann has not endorsed Romney whose current positions are not all that different than hers or Gingrich’s. She has spoken out about what she and others perceived to be Gingrich’s dismissive tone toward her during the debates.

    How is pointing out that a particular male candidate was disrespectful toward his female opponent inappropriate on a site dedicated to advancing the cause of equality for women? And, please explain to me how pointing out one man’s behavior translates to an indictment of all men?

  • Bes

    It would be a good idea for feminists to pick a write in name for women who see no reason to vote for either party to use on their ballot. I tossed out Minnie Mouse but that character is copyrighted. Maybe Mother Nature would be good. Other suggestions are welcome. We need a symbol of feminine strength that is well known, relateable not controversial and not copyrighted. It wouldn’t require any money and it would make clear to both parties how many women voters show up to vote their local issues but are disgusted with the backward way both parties treat women voters and candidates. Once the name is chosen a few blog articles and letters to the Editor and maybe a chain letter to get the message out to women who would like to participate and we could make a feminist point in the election in spite of the political parties and Corporate Media.

  • BevWKY

    Dec 16, 2011 – Gov. Nikki Haley Endorses Mitt Romney for President
    http://www.wltx.com/news/story.aspx?storyid=163707
    (with video)

    Susan, I never said it was inappropriate. Have at it if that’s what you wish to do. I said it was something I didn’t want to wade through on a regular basis.

    With particular regards to Gingrinch, what most of you with such an ax to grind about male candidate’s behavior seem to not realize is how many times during the 2008 campaign Hillary Clinton supporters told the rest of us that what happened between Bill & Hillary – past, present and even future – was their business and had absolutely nothing to do with her, her abilities or her running for President. That regardless of whatever qualms we might have about “Bill’s peccadilloes” they were irrelevant to her campaign because a candidate’s personal life wasn’t on the table when they were running – they should be judged on their abilities and merits. Whatever those are

    Could it possibly be that we finally took you all at your word and said, okay. If that’s the way you want it, then so be it? A person’s personal life has nothing to do with their abilities as a politician.

    And then there was Sarah Palin and the hounds were unleashed.

    And we really had our eyes opened.

    And now you think we’re going to let someone’s personal life stand in the way of us choosing who WE want to defeat Obama?

    Really? Seriously?

    Or is there truly a complete double standard for each side in politics and we’re all just supposed to play the game regardless of whether we’re female or male? Which way should it be, people? Make up your minds. Is this politics or is this tiddlywinks.

  • Bes

    Bill Clinton is the one with bad character traits not Hillary. Bill’s cheating had nothing to do with her and she isn’t to blame for it, and it is my understanding that Bill and Hillary live separately. She will be stuck being parents and probably grandparents with him for life so I can see why she wouldn’t divorce him as she has more control over him being still married to him. Besides if she divorces him he will undoubtedly marry a 25 year old and pop out a bunch of vermin spawn which will reduce her daughters inheritance. I don’t see any benefit for her to divorce him, you probably couldn’t pay her to re-marry.

    Newt has also shown repeatedly that he has bad character and lies to the people who are closest to him for his own selfish wants. I won’t vote for Newt because he has bad character and craves power. He is exactly the kind of man who should not be given power. He is a dangerous choice for President.

  • Bes

    On a lighter note I can’t wait until they start trying to sell the boney-assed fembot Newt thinks is such a political asset to women voters (ROFLMAO). Political men seem to actually believe that First Ladies are the women’s representative to all things political and “leaders among women”. Like we crave twice daily, breaking news fashion updates or something. They are so completely tone deaf to women voters that it should be hilarious. (still ROFLMAO)

  • Susan

    “But, no, let’s make this all about women against men and how badly men treat women.”

    That was your comment, BevWKY. I say again, what’s wrong with pointing out that Gingrich treated Bachmann dismissively as a fellow candidate? That’s not about his personal life. That’s how he treated a woman, in public, who are his professional equal.

    I agree completely with Bes. Bill’s behavior is his own. I had some issues with Hillary’s tolerance of his adultery until I read Carl Bernstein’s biography of her and that somewhat hostile book resolved my conflicts about her and I’ve been a staunch supporter ever since.

    And, on a lighter note, I saw Hillary and Bill Clinton at a Broadway show just before Christmas. There are many things that Bill did, personally and professionally that I didn’t like but the man has an aura about him that is unmistakeable. Add the fact that he speaks so well and is brilliant and I can understand why he’s gotten away with so much over the years. Newt’s aura wouldn’t fill a teaspoon.

  • BevWKY

    I find it almost humorous that both of you automatically jump to “Bill’s behavior is his own” but make no connection to the “keeping out of the private lives of all candidates” aspect of what I thought was a left-side talking point that I see conservatives now espousing to a great degree.

    But there’s no element of “men are the bad guys” here. Nope. None at all. Heh. 😉

    Or sigh. Whatever.

  • Susan

    BevWKY, please stop misrepresenting my posts. I have never asserted that a candidate’s personal behavior should be off-limits to voters for purposes of judging his or her suitability to hold office. My point was that Hillary should not be held responsible for Bill’s sins.

    Apparently, in your world any criticism of a man makes a woman a man-hater. So, why do you even come to a blog on a site that’s dedicated to achieving equality for women?

  • Bes

    There’s not a chance in hell that media will stay out of the private lives of political candidates and I’m not going to waste energy trying to “unknow” what I have become aware of regarding Newt. Also clearly I don’t draw the line of what’s private the same place Bev does. So I think it is outrageous for the press to say a candidates spouse or children have been treated for depression or have a DUI or MIP. But if a candidate is an out of control drunk or is bipolar that is important relevant information although it is also private. Newt is comfortable living a lie with the person who should be closest to him. He lived his open marriage for 6 years with Calista with out giving his wife notice so she could do the same or dump him. Calista is a devout Catholic?! Really?! I didn’t realize devout Catholics found it OK to sleep with a married man in his and his wife’s home for 6 years, and I am Catholic. I found Bill Clinton and his escapades embarrassing at the time and I don’t want to go there again. I think Bill should have been impeached for being so stupid and reckless that he got caught. I still remember riding the ski lift up at Whistler with a bunch of Canucks who were laughing their asses off at Bill and my country and I didn’t like it.

    If we open up the Presidency to women candidates we will have a better quality of candidate. I’m not saying all men are bad and all women are good but the quality of male political candidates is not impressive. Although I do like Romney enough.

  • Kali

    If Romney is the Republican candidate, I will vote third party or write-in Hillary, because there isn’t much difference between Romney and Obama. They are both corporate candidates. But if Newt or Santorum are the Republican candidates, I will have to vote for Obama. In my opinion, Newt and Santorum are too misogynistic for me to be indifferent to their chance of becoming president. Obama is misogynistic too, but nothing compared to Santorum or Newt.

  • Kimble

    This is an interesting discussion. I have yet to see anyone make the case for why any of these candidates would be a good president in terms of improving the lives of women and girls. I see a lot of anti-Obama sentiment, but that only goes so far– if one of these candidates win, and they take office in Jan. ’13, Obama is no longer part of the discussion.

    How will a Romney or Gingrich presidency improve the lives of women and girls?

  • Bes

    Kimble, I don’t think any of the candidates and certainly not Obama who set women back 50 year with his use of sexism to defeat Hillary, have even thought to make a statement as to how they would improve the lives of women and girls which is remarkable since we are 52 percent of the population. I am not sure any of them have the credibility to be believed if they did offer such a pro female statement.

    Romney is a Republican corporate guy who is essentially the same as Obama but I do think something is gained for women by sweeping the Misogynist Chicago Thugs out of DC. Of course he is wrong to say “corporations are people too” and he should just say “Yeah I pay 14% taxes, that is all I legally owe and that is wrong I will lead the drive to change the tax law.” But he can’t and won’t because he is Multinational Corporate man.

    Newt is an entertaining blowhard clown who lies to the people who are close to him. He craves power and he makes use of it and that isn’t a suitable personality for a national leader.

    Santorum would probably be a good Christian President but we need a National Leader for everyone not just Christians and some of the “values” Christians hold most dear infringe on my rights.

    Writing in someone has it’s appeal. I didn’t think of writing in Hillary, that would be fine. But I think there is an opportunity to establish a woman’s protest vote since we aren’t going to get woman candidates or even a statement of policy concerning women. Now I am leaning toward writing in Pandora or Cassandra, or maybe encourage each woman to pick the woman from history they most admire and write her in. But I think it would be worth establishing a write-in protest movement because it will probably be years before women gain political parity and such a movement could help establish a count of potential women voters who currently opt out of Presidential politics.

  • Juliette

    Kali

    There is not a presidential candidate more misogynic than Barak Obama. Obama hangs out with rappers rape about women in dispictable ways. His wife even insisted that one of them be invited to speak at a forum on poetry hosted at the white house for children. Remember when Obama stepped on the stage after his “victory” in Iowa while is pal Jay-Zee’s song “I got 99 problems and a bitch ain’t one” played. Obama is the greatest enabler of misogyny in America.
    I regret that the republican front runner is a womanizer- really I do. But I do not see Rick Santorum as misogynic in any way. He believes that the traditional role of mother and wife is valuable and so do I. It is the democrat party that maked women believe their most valuable right is the right to end the human life that is growing inside of them and that is really sad. I know many women who have had abortions and are emotionally injured by their choice. If you call Santorum sexist I can see perhaps that term applies because sexism is not an irrational hatred of women but an antiquated way of seeing a womans role in society. It is very beneign compared to misogyny in my oppinion. The irration hatred that the left displayed toward Hillay, Palin and Bachmann was extreem and nothing that came from the right compared to it. Lets remember it was the former patriarch of the democrat party who got away with leaving a woman at a bottom of a lake to die. You will never see a republican get away with something like that.

  • Bes

    Newt is worse than a womanizer he would Jerry Springerize the White house and that’s not OK with me. I don’t want hysterically laughing foreigners engaging me in conversation regarding BJs in the oval office or cigar sex while riding a ski lift with my children. Really how hard is it to maintain a sense of public dignity? Not that hard, I manage to do it. I would have to say Newt can’t and hasn’t because he doesn’t value the concept and considering his blatant low brow behavior he has no business being outraged that people/the press noticed. The concept of Callista as a devout Catholic is offensive to me considering she shacked up in the apartment/bed Newt shared with his wife for SIX YEARS when his wife was out of town (and I haven’t been in a church in two years). Seriously how stupid do these people think we are.

  • Susan

    Santorum thinks that women who are impregnated as the result of rape should just “make the best of it” and endure the pregnancy. He believes that abortion should be illegal even if the pregnancy endangers the woman’s life. I can think of very few attitudes that are less misogynistic than that.

  • Juliette

    Susan

    Attitudes are not actions. Democrat Ted Kennedy got away with murdering a woman. And as for abortion, life begins at conception, that is now an undeniable fact. The majority of the worlds abortions have ended the life of female babies. US tax dollars have gone to countries that practice female infanticide. When will libearls see the truth. Abortion is not good for women. It is at best a safety net made of barbed wire and at worst a conscience decision to destroy a human life. Liberal dudes support abortion because it gets them off the hook of paying child support. Wake Up!

  • Susan

    Who ruled that “life” begins at conception? Pat Robertson or Pope Benedict? That’s a religious concept, not a scientific or legal determination.

    Who are you to say that abortion is not “good” for women? War isn’t “good” for society but sometimes it’s the right choice in response to a specific set of circumstances. Considering the fact that about fifty million women have chosen to have an abortion since it became legal and very few of those women are publicly working to deny others their right to choose, I’d say that having the choice to end a pregnancy is a choice that those women value.

    The two most prominent men who’ve failed to provide for their children that I can think of are Republicans who claim to be pro-life. Congressman Joe Walsh owes over a hudred thousand dollars in child support and Newt Gingrich’s first divorce papers reveal that his children sometimes received charity from their church in order to keep the lights on and food on the table because he refused to provide adequate support until he was ordered by the court to do so.

    Wise up!

  • Susan

    Btw, I’ve never voted for nor defended Ted Kennedy but his possible crime pales in comparison to the tens of thousands of innocent women and children killed by the hubris and greed of Republicans George W. Bush and Dick Cheney.

  • Anna

    Susan and Juliette, can we leave it, that are pretty nasty democrat and republican men who should not have gotten away with their crimes.
    I agree with Juliette, that abortion is the cheap way out for the impregnators. if they had to pay fines for getting women pregnant without their consent, the abortion numbers would come down. we even call tissue culture cells “live”, so he combination of an egg cell and a sperm is technically life and it takes just a few days until you get all the organ development. Despite life’s beginning no one should interfere with what a woman in a very sad time of her life does with her body. Having said that I have difficulties with the “feminist” quest, that abortion is a right. The rights I would be battling for are equal rights for women in the constitution.
    and back to Romney. compared to Santorum and the Grinch (as my daughter and her friends say) Romney looks pretty good, with a female vice I would be able to vote for him.

  • Kali

    For the conservatives, women are reproductive objects. For the liberals, women are sex objects. We need more women in power (in politics, business, academics, law, etc.) to overcome that object status and have equal rights with respect to our bodily integrity.

  • Kimble

    I agree with Kali that we need more women in power–in the fields that she listed. I applaud TNA’s mentoring efforts–mentoring is something that will yield relatively quick results, and will build upon itself organically.

    The other area where we need more women in positions of power, I think, is the elephant in the room–religion. Catholicism, LDS, Southern Baptists, Islam, some though not all corners of the Evangelical movement–formally forbid women from serving in positions of power. There’s not a glass ceiling–it’s steel; impenetrable.

  • Bes

    The Old Testament is the basis of Christian, Jewish, Muslim, and Mormon religions. They are all patriarchal religions. They all have liberal sects and they all have conservative sects. I don’t need any of them telling me what to do with my body because God made me with free will and good judgement whether they like it or not. I don’t want someone else’s religion crammed down my throat. In fact I don’t want my own religion crammed down my throat.

    I would say that for life to exist it would have to be able to live in the world on it’s own. Before that it is a potential for life. But I think abortion is almost always a mistake. It isn’t a situation I want to be harped at about during each and every election.

  • Susan

    Anna, there is no more significant right than the right to control our bodies.
    `
    You and Juliette must know some really horrible men if you think that the men who support reproductive choice only do so because they don’t want to pay child support.

    As to Romney, when he was a very powerful leader in the LDS Church in Boston, he told an unmarried, pregnant woman that she risked being excommunicated from the church if she ignored his recommendation that she give her child up for adoption. I’m not sure where that falls on a scale that includes Gingrich’s adultery, Santorum’s crusade to make women nothing more than incubators and Obama’s use of sexism during the primaries but it shocked me.

  • Susan

    Bes, on what basis do you say that “abortion is almost always a mistake”?

    I absolutely understand your desire not to hammered with the abortion issue during every election. I’d like to mark it off and move on to issues like pay parity, too, but the anti-choice people have made it clear that they won’t be satisfied until they’ve denied women any control over their reproductive choices including criminalizing contraception.

  • Bes

    I think Children are gifts and most women who have an abortion will come to regret it, (in fact that is the case with my generation of friends) although it isn’t a decision women make lightly at the time. Also birth control has improved and Plan B is available. I do agree that a lot of the motive of the anti choice people is to keep women under control. But for now women have birth control available and they have the right to safe abortion so rather than fretting about losing those rights I would like to cross that bridge when we come to it and work on issues that affect all females. Such as parity in political representation, equal pay for equal work, and media images of women. I think you are right that religious groups are trying to roll back reproductive freedoms, but they don’t represent the majority of voters.

  • Bes

    I also meant to say reproductive rights is not an issue that affects all females. Some women choose to be celibate, some don’t choose men for sex partners, some females are too young or to old to be pregnant. So it is an issue that affects women who choose male sex partners for about 30 years of a 85 year life span. That comes out to about one third of their life for some women. Political parity, media images of women and pay parity affect all females their entire life. So I feel it is time to put reproductive freedom on the back burner for awhile and not get sucked into battles that distract from moving women forward on other important fronts.

  • Juliette

    Susan

    Who ruled that life begins at conception? Liberals have a very difficult time dealing with the science on this issue. Something is either alive or it is not. When an egg is fertilized it begins to multiply and grow, therefore it is undeniably alive. The proof that it is distinctly human came with the discovery of the human genome which is present at the time of fertilization. Although I agree with Bess on many things I have to diagree her claim that for life to exist it would have to be able to exist in the world on its own. By that logic infants, todlers and elementary school children do not qualify as a human life.
    I would ask all supporters of Planned Parenthood to do some research on Margret Sanger -the founder of Planned Parenthood who went to Germany to study Eugenics. Listen to her in her own words on You tube. Then do some research on Pescott Bush -Indicted Nazi collaborator and grand father to George W. Bush. He was one of the first advocates of Planned Parenthood and supported it for the same reasons that Sanger did.
    As for the Bush wars, Susan. The Bushes are big government progressives who have promotted the same Global government that Gore, Soros and Obama have. These are just different crime families angling for dominance in the UN ‘s agenda 21. Wasn’t it a democrat president who dropped nukes on two civilian urban populations in Japan? Wasn’t it a republican president who warned Americans of the evil Military Industrial complex?
    The war in Iraq started in 1990. I was very much involved in studying world affairs at that time and even had dinner with Ammed Chelabi which was hosted by The World Affairs Council. From 1990 to the time that Bush orchestrated the ousting of Saddam Hussein, the Globalist British Loyalists have been planning a reconfiguration of the Muslim World. Obama’s weapon of choice was Facebook, Community Organizers International and the Muslim world’s useful idiots who because of the “Community Organizers” manipoulation, are now living in utter chaos.
    I don’t hear any complaints from you about the many Christians who have been burnied in their Churchs in Iraq, Eygpt and Nigeria since the left’s Spring Time for Hitler and the Muslim Brotherhood has set the Muslim world on fire. Woman and girls are now in more danger than ever in the Bush Obama sponsored “Muslim democracys.” This is how the British kept Muslim countries in the dark ages. They have gotten many American leaders on board with their style of world domination. I want no part of it. Obama is Bush on steroids. Bush made a mess of Iraq and Obama made a mess of the rest of the Muslim World. Not that the Muslim world was every very good, but now it is complete hell for women, girls and all minority religions. Good luck to the Obama cabinet members son who is being denied exit from Eygpt. These Marxist Muslim brotherhood loves are complete morons. Soon the results of their stupidity will be imposible even for the liberal press to ignore.

  • Juliette

    Bes

    As for your staement “I think that children are gifts and that most women who have abortion will come to regret it.” That has been my observation of friends who have had abortion. I used to be nutral on abortion when I was a democra up until 2008. It was Obamas defeat of The Born Alive Infant Protection Act that led me to learn more about abortion and it’s affects. I still love my friends who have had abortion and I am sensitive enough to have noticed their pain and remorse when they speak of their decisions. They are now all middle aged women alone and with no one to care for them in thier old age. I would have loved to have known each of their children. I can say that thay all made a horrific choice and even if they don’t articulate it in those exact words they have allowed me to understand that they have a very hard time dealing with their decision.
    I am staunchly pro-life now and it is the number one reason I hold the republican-authentic pro-life candidates in high esteem. Sarah Palin’s choice is inspirational to me. Children bring families together even in the most difficult situations. They help many immature irresponsible people grow up to be resonsible parents. They hold all the “Hope” of the future. Europe is dying because of their failure to procreate. America could easily fall into that suicidal pattern. Liberal policies are prone to reduction ad absurdum.

  • Juliette

    Bes

    I don’t agree that The Old Testament is the Basis of Islam and the Book of Mormon. Mohammed had a difficult time getting his own tribe to accept him as a prophet of God- so he went to another tribe and got them to salughter his tribe “The Koresh” along with him. He then married an older woman with money and religious influence. Her name was Khadija and her uncle was a powerful Christian Patriarch. You can think of him as Obama’s David Axelrod because he did wonders for Mohammeds dimmitude. Mohammed used the old and new Testiment prophets to sell his new relgion. Similar things can be said of Joe Smith.
    Niether of these religions have any of the true tenants of the old or new testiment. They have used them for self promotion.
    Both Jesus and Moses were honarable and kind in thier treatment of woman. For those other “prophets” they are as far rom Jesus and Moses as one can get.

  • Bes

    Here is the thing. Religion is religion and politics is politics. Some people like to mix the two together but many people, and I am one of them, don’t. I don’t mind if anyone has religious opinions but I don’t want to hear about them in political discussions and I avoid religious discussions unless they have to do with history because like it or not the bible influences civilization and history. So I am sick of the abortion/reproductive freedom issue being the be all and end all of “women’s issues”. Perhaps women’s groups could score “women’s issues” and then prioritize working on them. So I would give varying amounts of points to issues based on whether the issue affects all females or not, whether current law is favorable or unfavorable and so on. Currently reproductive freedom is favored in law and the issue does not affect all females only some women (those who choose to have sex with men) for approximately 33 percent of their life. OK let’s back-burner that issue and focus on parity in political representation, equal pay and job opportunity, media images of women and equal and relevant health care (we don’t want equal access to prostate exams). Let’s completely quit fighting for gay and racial issues. And has anyone noticed that the Gay community is fighting a state by state battle to legalize gay marriage? Why have feminists not been fighting a state by state reproductive health battle the last 20 years? Perhaps they have been too busy fighting other peoples battles and have neglected their own?

  • Susan

    Bes,I challenge your statement that most women of your generation who had abortions regret them. How many women are you talking about and how does that number look up against the number of women who’ve been interviewed by the Guttmacher Institute which does not find wide spread regret?

    And is that regret related to wishing that they had been more careful about using contraceptives if they had known what was available or if it had been readily available?

    I challenge the rest of your statement, as well. Most women who have an abortion already have children or have children after the avortion. Those who are left childless after an abortion are in the minority. I’m quite sure that many of them wonder what might have been. That is a
    night and day different from wishing that one had made a different choice at the time when the choice needed to be made.

    Of course, you’re welcome to work on different issues. I’m no longer fertile myself but I have young relatives and friends who are. And I care about strangers who might wake up one morning at fourteen and realize that she’s pregnant. I hope and pray that she doesn’t live in a state where she will not have a real choice in how to handle this huge decision in a way that is best for her.

  • Kimble

    Juliette,

    You say “Sarah Palin’s choice is inspirational to me.” I think that is a sentiment that many share.

    But take a look at your language… Sarah Palin indeed had a *choice*. How does it follow that since Sarah Palin and many others choose to continue pregnancy under trying circumstances, that you want to deny others the ability to make that choice, and instead thrust them in to a situation that they may not be ready for emotionally, financially, mentally?

  • Kimble

    I think that the way to minimize abortions in this country is to have comprehensive sex ed. available to every middle and high school student in this country.

    I greatly benefitted from strong sex ed. way back in the late 70s and early 80s. My parents were older and squeamish on the subject so I didn’t learn anything at home. At school, we got it drilled in to our heads that “if you are not mature enough to walk in to a drug store and say, ‘I’d like to buy a condom’, you’re not mature enough to have sex”. Lots of talk about STDs, pregnancy, birth control.

    We learned that unplanned pregnancy leaves you with an absolutely miserable trio of choices: terminate, and deal with all the emotions that surround termination, give baby up for adoption–again, unbelievable emotional consequences, or become a mother, and have your life, your college and professional ambitions changed forever.

    Guess what–it was *extremely* effective… all that sex ed. created a bunch of abstinent high-schoolers. No one got pregnant in my town, and most of us didn’t become sexually active until college or beyond. The few girls I knew who had intercourse made a trip to Planned Parenthood and were birth-controlled to the hilt.

    In our country we bombard kids with hypersexualized images and now teen pregnancy is practically seen as glamorous.

  • Bes

    I am only speaking of my friends and they have kids even though they have had an abortion in the past. I think they wished they had another child. But I am sure that there are women who don’t feel that way, maybe they just don’t talk about it. Still birth control is less dangerous, more available and more effective than when I was young. Plan B is also available. Early abortions are legal. So while I do worry about my young friends and relatives I know they have options.

    Now I would like to move on to conquer other issues that cripple women. Those being issues that affect all females. Parity in political representation, media images of girls and women, equal pay and opportunity to jobs, equal and relevant health care. You are aware that much health research does not even include women in the studies because women are obviously so different from men (the NORMAL humans) they could skew the results Then they apply the findings of the male research to females because we are obviously the same as males, the “normal” people. Yes, these are scientific people making this stupid set of assumptions. So I say give up on the abortion battle for now, work on these other issues, and if there are people who want to stick with the abortion issue as the be all and end all “feminist” issue I would suggest they take a page from Gay activists and take their fight to the individual states. We have done that in Washington (state).

  • Bes

    By the way if Gay women or women of color or ethnic minorities want to know what the Pro Woman group is doing for them they should know we are working on Parity in political representation, media images of girls and women, equal pay and job opportunity, equal and relevant health care for them.

  • Kimble

    Bes,

    All the causes you mention, I agree, are extremely important. But, if you’re going to ask leftist feminists to give up their work on reproductive rights, don’t you think, out of fairness, that you would have to get anti-abortion people to stop fighting that fight?

    It takes two to tango. The reason why feminist orgs. cannot move on is because the right is continually working at eroding access to abortions.

  • Susan

    Bes, your assumption that women and girls facing an unplanned pregnancy today all have options is jaw-droppingly inaccurate. Do you just not read about the issue because it doesn’t interest you? The whacko right has had an enormous impact on the availability of contraception and abortion in the past decade. During the Bush administrration, many students were not even taught about contraception. They were forced to endure “abstinence only” classes which have been shown to have no impact on rates of teen pregnancy. Abortion providers have been murdered and their offices have been shut down by ridiculous rules relating to the widths of hallways. Planned Parenthood is facing defunding on federal and state levels and a married man trying to Purchase Plan B for his wife was recently refused the right to purchase the drug.

    As to lesbians and women of color, do you think that they aren’t interested in choice? And what is “equal and relevant health care” if it does not include reproductive health?

    For the record, I’m not a “lefty”. I’m a politically moderate woman who believes deeply in equal rights for men and women.

  • Susan

    http://www.guttmacher.org/medi.....Health.pdf

    Anecdotal evidence is just that – anecdotal. There is good research on the issue.

  • Juliette

    Kimble

    I mentioned Sarah Palin’s choice because at this time in our nations sad history that is what it is; a choice. I do not support people making a choice to terminate a pregnancy due to genetic defects, gender or as a matter of convienience. Women have many choices in avioding unwanted pregnancies. If they choose the safety net made of barbed wire that is abortion, they put themselves at great risk of getting an STD like AIDS. Life begins at conseption. Medical tecnology has made it posible to detect genetic defects in the very early stages of pregnancy. Soon all kinds of genetic defects will be easily detected at early stages of pregnancy and more women will choose to eliminate the life inside them because it is genetically imperfect. I believe this is terribly wrong, but it certainly would not have offened the founder of Planned Parenthood Margret Sanger and one of Planned Parenthoods earliest supporters- Prescott Bush. I wonder how many supporters of Planned Parenthood have the courage to listen to Margret Sanger in her own words and study her involvement with Nazi Eugenecists.

  • Juliette

    I would like to mention the best way for women to avoid an unwanted pregnancy due to rape. Vote out all the liberal judges in your district. They are the reason that we have so many rapist and child molesters roaming the streets when they should be serving hard time. Liberal judges don’t take crimes against women an children seriously. They always find sympathy for the devil.

  • Susan

    And, where is your evidence that liberal judges take the crimes of sexuaal assault against anyone anyone, child or adult, more or less seriously?

  • Susan

    The Constitution once considered women and blacks to be the property of men but the document and its authors are worshipped by many. I’m well aware of the hatred displayed against Margaret Sanger who lived a hundred years ago by those who want to deny women reproductive choices today.

    I view the authors or the Constitution as constrained by their times and I view Margaret Sanger the same way.

  • Kimble

    Since Dr. Brown posted this piece 11 days ago, the momentum has swung from Romney to Gingrich back to Romney.

    Romney leads Gingrich by a whopping 21 points amongst female voters in Florida.

    http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com.....in-florida

    Palin’s supporting Gingrich, Cain formally endorsed him.

    Meanwhile, republicans like Bob Dole and Tom Coburn are revealing what a pain in the ass Gingrich was to work with.

    It’s Tea Party vs. mainstream war. Very interesting.

  • BevWKY

    It’s Tea Party vs. mainstream war. Very interesting.

    Ya think? o.O

    http://www.therightscoop.com/n.....-as-false/

  • BevWKY

    And there’s also this: http://www.americanthinker.com....._newt.html

    For anyone who thinks that the rest of us are obsessed about any one particular social issue, well, I just don’t have time to discuss it. I have bills to pay. Deal with it.

    Or not.

  • Juliette

    Kimble

    Let’s not forget Romney’s most powerful supporters, the Bush Cartel. It is so typical that the liberal media (which now includes Fox (thanks Prince Al Aweedi bin Talehl.) is pushing for the same big government Keynesian economics, Global govenment candidate the progressive Bush family supports.
    Who do the bushes and establishment republicans dispise- Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachmann, Ron Paul, and the entire Tea Party Revolutionaries. I am with them. The democrat and republican establishment are the same. Palin will have the courge to create a new party if the establishment once again manipulates the vote and gives it to Romney. She has the courage to do it and she will in 2012.

  • Juliette

    Wow my comment just disappeared!

  • Juliette

    BeWKY

    It is interesting indeed. Bachmann was my candidate and my only opposition to Newt was over his personal life. But it is quite apparent that the Bush Progressive candidae has been annointed just as Obama was annointed by the democrat establishment. The Progressive globalist Bush family dispise the Tea Party and are even working to get rid of Congressman Alan West’s congressional district in Florida. If they get their way we will be forced to choose in Nov 2012 between the Goldmann Sachs candidate or the other Goldmann Sachs candidate. The voters allow themselves to be manipulated like sheep, but the Tea Parety is not going away. They are made of the same stuff the American Revolutionaries were and they will eventually create a party that will take America back from the traitors in both parties.

  • Juliette

    Margret Sanger in an interview with Mike Wallace:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related

  • Juliette

    Prayers for Bella Santorum

    http://michellemalkin.com/2012.....-santorum/

    Quite a contrast to Margret Sanger!

  • JeanLouise

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related

    Mike Wallace is a rather hostile, domineering interviewer but Brava! to Margaret Sanger who worked tirelessly to overturn the barbaric laws against even providing information against birth control.

  • Susan

    Oops, the last sentence should read “providing information ON birth control”.

  • Susan

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....04768.html

    Allen West insults Debbie Wasserman-Schultz in sexist language.

    Tell me again, Juliette, why you post on a blog that’s dedicated to eliminating sexist attacks of just the sort that Allen West made on Representative Wasserman-Schultz?

  • Juliette

    Susan

    Alan West is the strong voice of reason concerning Islamic pratices that are insanely violent towards women. Debbie Wasserman Schultz is a sell out to her people and her gender. She tried to blame the actions of a deranged Pagan who shot a true blue dog democrat who voted against Nancy Pelosi’s minority leadership and was a darling of Fox News, on Sarah Palin and the Tea Party patriots. The anti-semitism the left has been displaying lately is alarming from the anti-Jewish rants of the OWS thugs to liberal journalist’s Helen Thomas’ instructions for Jews in Israel to go home to “Germany and Poland”! And you are worried about Allen West?
    But if Margret Sanger, who vocally supports Eugenics and the elimination of people because of their genetic defects and race is a hero to the left, it makes sense that Debbie Wasserman Schultz heads the DNC, which incidentally- destroyed Hillary Clinton’s candidacy with (not sexism) but swamp misogyny. I am glad that a brave man like Alan West stands between me and the Burka. The Bush Cartel and Romneyites have it in for him because he has the courgage to take on the the RINO establishment and they are trying to eliminated his district. It amazes me that people who are so anti-Bush want to destroy all the same people the Bushs want to destroy. I hope the DNC keeps Schultz as their spokes person. She is the gift that keeps on giving.

  • Juliette

    Jean Louise

    It is amazing how liberals distract form the facts. Liberal Journalist Mike Wallace who disroyed his career by going after George W. Bush with forged documents might be rude in this interview and in addition he is rpomoting cigarets (pretty common at the time.) But I watched the entire interview and have studied this issue down to the birth of Eugenics which started in the liberal learning institutions funded by The Rockefellers and Carnegie foundations, was championed by Sanger and has been sucessful in providing abortion for a African Americans at three time the rate of other races in America. The words of Sanger are words of a sick twisted and extreemly racist woman. I don’t belong in a party that celebrates a woman like this. I belong in the party in which people have the courage and compassion to give a child with a genetic defect a chance at life.

  • Juliette

    Debbie Wasserman Schultz and the democrats have behaved shamfully in their manipulation and scare tactics used to con elderly medicare reciepients into votin for them. Obama’s Health Scare Bill pillaged Medicare. When I was was a democrat I supported people like Dennis Kucinich who realed against Obama’s ” 50 billion give away to insurance comapanies and big Pharma.” Just one day before the vote on Obama scare Kucincih was taken up on Air Force one for some Chicago Politics persuation which lead to him supporting the bill after months of calling it out for the theft it was. Obama’s Kenysian economics is devestating as well to responsible seniors who saved a nest egg which now shrinks with each “stimulous” Obama use to stimulate his support among wealthy robber baron friends like Warren Buffet and George Soros. Black Conservatives and even blue dog democrats like my major Micheal Nutter are ruitinely called things like Uncle Tom from the party of Eugenics. It would be nice if one of these intellectually supperior liberals actually read Uncle Tom’s cabin, perhaps they would then know who the villan is! Wasserman Schultz is the poster child for everything wrong with the democrats.

  • Susan

    Juliette, such hatred poisons one’s soul.

  • Juliette

    Susan
    Yes Margret Sangers soul was certainly poisoned with her hatred of certain unfavorable races and of children with genetic defects.

  • Susan

    Martin Luther King, Jr., praised Margaret Sanger when he accepted the award which is named after her in the mid-Sixties. So, the hero of the Civil Rights movement clearly disagrees with you.

    Sanger thought that the parents of profoundly retarded adults should have the ability to assure that those individuals would not have children that they could not care for adequately. That seems pretty reasonable to me.

    Lastly, Margaret Sanger opposed abortion. Her crusade was to make contraceptives available to all women. She reasoned, quite rightly, that access to contraceptives reduced the number of abortions. Now, there’s a logical conclusion that the religious zealots who hate Planned Parenthood can’t seem to reach.

  • Juliette

    Her is a direct quote from your hero Margaret Sanger:

    “The Eugenic and civilization value of birth control is becoming apparent to the enlightened and the intelligent the campaign for birth control is not merely of eugenic value, but is practically identical in ideal with the final aim of euganics.”

    Margaret Sanger 1921

    You speak of MLK as if he is still living. If he could see the black genocide that Planned Parenthood has engaged in for decades he surely would have retracted his “praise” as you put it.
    Oh, and The Susan B. Komen foundation cut off all funding to Planned Parenthood. It seems people are waking up to the truth!

  • Susan

    George Washington and Thomas Jefferson owned slaves but that doesn’t stop the right wing from worshipping those “Founding Fathers”. Jesus Christ, Himself, is not recorded in the Bible as ever speaking out against slavery. So, if you’re going to hang Margaret Sanger for supporting a common belief of her day that drunks and the mentally disabled shouldn’t have children, at least, have some integrity and reject Washington and Jefferson for the slave-holders they were. And accept that Christ missed at least one moral instruction.

    As for MLK, Jr., he died about the same time that Sanger did and was well aware of her works which he praised effusively. That’s a fact that you can’t change.

    This “black genocide” bull was made up by a bunch of white, racist rightwing religious whackos who view black children and their black mothers as “entitlement abusers” and who are trying to cut food programs such as food stamps and Women, Infants and Children supplements. They want every black pregnant woman to be forced to give birth but they’ll be damned if they’ll pay for those lazy, slutty women or their spawn to eat. I suppose if the kid can survive until he or she is ten, they can get a job cleaning the bathroom at the local elementary school to earn enough money to pay for peanut butter sandwiches.

    Oh, yeah, Komen kicked a beehive and got swarmed. It took less than three days for them to fold because the truth is that most Americans want women to have access to basic health care including reproductive choice.

    At least for this week, women won and misogyny lost.

  • Juliette

    MArgret Sanger supported the liberal ideal of her day-That certain races should be thinned out with birth control which in her own words had Eugenic and Civilizaion value.

  • Juliette
  • Juliette

    Sorry that last address is missing a word:

    http://hillbuzz.org/komanize-t.....tion-92876

  • Juliette

    My original responce to Susan’s comment to me is not posted. Why is that?

  • Juliette

    Susan
    The way you talk about black women displays the very real racism of the left. Why do you presume that these women are slutty or lazy? Why do you feel the tax payer should pay for their children’s up bringing and not the father of the children. Don’t you believe in the African American FAMILY? Food stamps, low income housing and wellfare destroyed the African American family which was traditionlly quite conservative. I live in Philadelphia and I see ever day the effect of liberal policies which enslave people in an eternal state of victimhood and dependency. The damage is not exclusive to African American’s. Less birth certificates include a fathers name than ever before and the numners are alarming. How on earth can this trend be a good thing for woman?
    Clearly Margret Sanger wanted less children of color in the world. That is what Eugenics os about. Who supports these children is another issue. But most conservatives believe in the ability of people of color to be self relaint and pro-family.

  • Juliette

    Inmy original responce to Susan which was never posted I explained how Jesus was the genesis of a religion that took down the Roman Empire which was responsible for slavery in his time. It took three hundred years and a Emperor named Constantine but it happened. As for the founding fathers, conservatives don’t “worship them, most of us worship God, but we do appreciate and understand that they created the most just and fair political system ever known to ma kind. It took less than 100 years for thier creation to bring and end to slavery. And yes it was quite apparent from his writings that Jefferson was a racist. But Margret Sanger’s baby Planned Parenthood still kills Black fetuses at three time the rate of white ones. Her study and promotion of Eugenics was the model the Nazis learned from. And she is a hero to the left.

  • Susan

    Juliette, you’re the kind of person who gives Christianity a bad name. Your writings are filled with lies and hatred and not reflective of any one who truly practices Christianity. Thank God that you and your ilk are in the minority.